Richard Heinberg interviewed by Michael Dowd in an episode of Dowd's "Post-doom Conversations," filmed the autumn of 2019. Title: "Living the Limits to Growth"
00:16 - PREVIEWS
03:00 - MD (Michael Dowd): "Doom is the midpoint between denial and regeneration — with or without us. Post-doom is the space that opens up when we remember who we are, accept what's inevitable, and invest in what is pro-future and soul-nourishing."
04:33 - RH (Richard Heinberg) - summarizes his work as a writer, mostly on environmental subjects, sustainability, Post-Carbon Institute, peak oil, climate, limits to growth paradigm.
06:56 - MD: speaks of his learnings from Heinberg's writings; queries on terminology preferences
08:09 - RH: terms he uses: overshoot (Catton), collapse, historical cycles (Turchin)
10:03 - MD Q: heart of this series is recounting your journey in worldview shifts
11:44 - RH: tells his story: early exploration of spirituality, eastern religions, then anthropology for diversity of human possibilites and limitations; our species predicament; role of religion
15:48 - MD: Edward Goldsmith writings (lifeways) and Ronald Wright (progress traps)
18:08 - RH: story continues; focus on fossil fuels effects on society and destruction
20:10 - MD: shared mentorship by the late Jay Hanson (overshoot loop); Walter Youngquist
20:42 - RH: learnings from Goldsmith, Youngquist, Hanson, Catton; fracking studies
23:14 - RH: shift in focus of Post-Carbon Institute to climate change; economic constraints
24:12 - MD: role in helping 2nd edition of Walter Youngquist's "GeoDestinies"
25:14 - MD Q: How has the larger perspective of life history informed you?
25:52 - RH: Big Picture is background, not foreground except now for "Fermi Paradox". His own solution to the paradox is that fossil fuel equivalents inherently promote overuse, overshoot, collapse (or conscious self-limitation).
28:51 - MD: We wrongly attribute "advanced" and "progress" to things that will be our undoing.
29:52 - RH: Human language that abstracts us from reality is unique and dangerous
31:18 - MD: Walter Ong on orality to literacy shift; Paul Kingsnorth
32:02 - RH: writings as the primordial technology of language, then mechanized power
33:04 - MD: Thomas Berry critiqued "the environment" language
33:46 - RH: that "the economy" takes precedence is understandable yet dangerous
34:28 - MD Q: What is your understanding of human nature in our societal predicament?
34:44 - RH: writing now about consequences of "Maximum Power Principle" in evolution; promotes instead intentional adoption of an "Optimum Power Principle"
38:50 - RH: need to give up economic growth (Johan Rockstrom, Herman Daly); also reduce population — yet these are "thoughts that can't be entertained."
40:55 - MD Q: How have you emotionally dealt with your sense of societal contraction?
41:29 - RH: "I've had a generally pessimistic view of the human prospect my whole adult life, since first reading The Limits to Growth in 1972. My whole adult life I've spent in the place where Greta Thunberg is. ... Of course one still has hopes ... celebrate the little victories."
43:00 RH: his story of emergency evacuation in 2017 owing to Calif wildfire
46:40 MD Q: What is beyond our control and where can we still make a difference?
47:03 RH: "We don't need to know the answer." How in 1970s deeply affected by Hindu story of Krishna and Arjuna ... "Life is a battlefield. Enter it and take selfless action. Do good for good's sake. Don't be attached to the results."
50:22 MD Q: Gifts experienced "on the other side of the post-doom doorway"?
50:59 RH: Most regenerative is connecting with other people who share his perspective; also his playing the violin, "If human life is worth preserving, then we should focus on what makes it worth preserving" ... actions that "produce great beauty."
Youtube playlist of all Post-Doom video conversations:
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Post-Doom Conversations website (videos, audios, and resources):
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Richard Heinberg's website:
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PostCarbon Institute:
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