Lord Burnett of Maldon has recently stepped down as Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales and head of the judiciary, after six years in post (2017-2023). He had carved out a career acting in public inquiries, which included the 1987 King’s Cross fire, the convictions of the Guildford Four and Maguire Seven, the 1997 Southall and 1999 Ladbroke Grove rail crashes, and the inquest into the deaths of Diana, Princess of Wales, and Dodi Fayed.

In this episode, Lord Burnett speaks about the impact of funding cuts to the criminal justice system and expresses concerns about the “ramping up” of sentence lengths, urging more use of community sentences for young offenders.

The interview is conducted by Frances Gibb, journalist and former legal editor of The Times, for a landmark podcast series, The Judges: Power, Politics and the People, hosted by The University of Law. The series features the most senior former judges in England and Wales of the last three decades – those who have reached the apex of the justice system. It asks: who are the men and occasionally women who have reached the pivotal positions at the top of the judiciary? What do they feel about their time in office - their key decisions and dealing with ministers?


00:00:00 Intro
00:02:31 Reflections on leaving role of Lord Chief Justice
00:05:23 Biggest challenges as Lord Chief Justice - COVID & backlogs
00:11:30 Early life and entry into the law
00:16:35 Career at the Bar
00:18:29 Public enquiries & miscarriages of justice
00:24:20 Diana and Dodi Inquest
00:27:03 Sentencing decisions
00:30:30 Becoming a judge
00:32:11 Being a judge vs advocate
00:34:03 Sentence lengths
00:42:04 Public views on sentencing
00:44:43 Dealings with ministers
00:47:21 Power of the judiciary within the constitution
00:49:30 Love of music
00:50:55 Change in balance of power
00:51:55 Role of Lord Chancellor
00:57:54 Attitude of ministers to the rule of law
01:00:34 Leaving the European Court of Human Rights
01:05:20 Prorogation ruling
01:10:12 Judges and politics
01:11:29 Future threats to the judiciary
01:15:26 Current state of the justice system
01:19:18 Cameras in courts

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